Three-Way: Paging Norma Gay
This week the femmes break down the leaderlessness of the gay rights movement, Three-Way style.
Elizabeth: Who is Norma Gay? Like, those gay people who are all white and live in houses with picket fences? Like normal gays or something?
Julia: Ha ha! Yes. And also, Norma Gay is Kathy Griffin's answer to a Norma Rae for the gays. She referred to herself as such at a marriage equality rally for 'No on 8' in California back in June.
Elizabeth: Oh. Cute. I think.
Amy: Norma Rae was "regular" in a working class, not intentionally activist way. She saw how a union would be good for her and for the people in her town and she eventually started seeing the ways that she could make that happen. It's all about the personal being political. So, any gay person can be a Norma Gay. Anyone who sees their classmates being harrassed, lives with the threat of physical violence no matter where they go because of their gender queerness, and of course -- as is the trend right now -- can't get married to their partner and have equal rights under the law.
Julia: This week on her show she was canvassing door-to-door for the Equality Campaign, and hanging out with baby gays, edumacating them about Matthew Shepard. And dick jokes.
Elizabeth: HA!
Amy: I was impressed by that as well as the cleverness of the sign she used. (See pic below.) She's always been a super ally.
Julia: It was surprisingly touching. She played this video about Matthew Shepard for the gaybies, then again for her mom at home. And she cried both times. She is a big softy. Who knew?
Elizabeth: Teehee. I really love her, it’s true. But is the fight for marriage equality really the same as the Norma Rae labor struggle stuff?
Julia: No, of course not. But her point was that the gay rights movement needs a leader who can organize and motivate the community to stand up for ourselves and win our legal rights, in the tradition of Norma Rae. Which is something a lot of us have been talking about these past few months. And it got me to thinking, who would I pick to be that person?
Elizabeth: I agree. For serious. I just get irritated when everyone is all mobilizing around marriage. We need a Norma Gay who can
Comments [87]
"Norma Gay".....
Pick a chick in a uniform.........They know how to get shit done!!!!!
Lake
union = unity of each member
union = unity of each member of our community towards a common cause.
"It's all about the personal being political. So, any gay person can be a Norma Gay." awesome, Amy.
i may be dumb...but who's yetta?
"there will never be a technology more advanced than the human mind - fully engaged in the divine process of being. technology is a tool not a destination." me.
"i may be dumb...but who's
"i may be dumb...but who's yetta?"
I may be wrong but I think they mean: http://yettakurland.com/splash/index.html
" Teachers teach and do the world good, Kings just rule and most are never understood "
thanks for the link. amazing.
thanks for the link. amazing.
yep thats the one!
she is also my lesbian husband
<3 Elizabeth
@elizabethkoke
but she looks like she's 15!!
Hey, you two need this place!
http://www.bwdogcoats.com/
Good luck
both of you
-Do not follow me, I'M LOST-
Lucky you,
Both!
even if you can't vote for
even if you can't vote for her your $ can make a difference: i just made a donation and i feel great!! i hope others do too...moral support is good but unfortunately, the reality is, financial support is even better.
"there will never be a technology more advanced than the human mind - fully engaged in the divine process of being. technology is a tool not a destination." me.
thanks Cal... Yetta
I thought they meant Yoda's Whife or sister ?
thanks for the link and clearing it up 4 me !
winks
How my mind works
I know you want us to think about leadership for our movement but I keep going back to the idea of sex and Chinese food. Anyway, I think any social movement needs good food for energy.
Civility is not a sign of weakness.
Sesame Chicken?
Perhaps there needs to be
Perhaps there needs to be separate movements? To cast too wide a net -- over to many a type of queer -- is and has been ineffective.
I think there should be education, of course, of the various modes of ethics (or lifestyles) available to all people (sexualities and genders).
But, perhaps we need to first reinforce the distinction between gender and sexuality -- most federal laws protect 'gender' .... we just need to educate everyone about the fact that there are more than 2 genders and that gender is an ethic, a lifestyle, and that people can appropriate or create and live more than one gender at a time.
As we all know, there is no direct correlation between one's gender and their sexuality, and it is sexuality that needs to be heralded at the fore of [whatever] movement. So, for lesbians and gays, I think their attention should be on winning some type of federal, legislative, 'equality' (because we all know that 'equality' is a stupid concept that only holds value and credence in a closed, political, system). Then, with 'equality' we can then proceed to fight for specific 'rights', such as marriage.
The LG community needs to pair down their focus -- because hetero, closed-minded people can only understand so much at a time.
And, if you're (somewhat) quick: why, yes, I'm saying that the LG movement is the "LG" movement. Alone. No other letters of the alphabet are included.
Give me a "b"! B! Give me a "t"! T!
No other letters of the alphabet are included.
only 2 letters? a small and lonely alphabet indeed.
ZT, I'm replying to your
ZT, I'm replying to your original comment but I've read the others. The problem with this thread is threefold I think.
1. As has already been pointed out, we regular commenters are not the only ones reading this stuff and when you say we should adopt terrorist tactics you are giving fuel to stoke the fires of those who vilify us.
2. We are not in academia here. You can't divorce a word from it's emotional baggage. Additionally, while ideas like separating the LG from the rest of the queer community sound good in theory they don't work in reality. Us LG folks don't exist in a vacuum. Ever heard the expression 'no man is free while others are oppressed'? I probably don't have the quote exactly right but the essence is there.
3. Saying things like "I don't believe in bisexuality" is personal to the bisexuals in the room. Suggesting that they, or the rest of the queer alphabet soup, are not welcome in our fight is also very personal. So while you may not have named names you have launched personal attacks and you should apologize.
wow
<quote>because hetero, closed-minded people can only understand so much at a time.</quote>
<quote>I'm saying that the LG movement is the "LG" movement. Alone. No other letters of the alphabet are included.</quote>
What makes you think your better and or different then the so called hetero, closed-minded people?
you want to know what is part of the reason that the lgbt right are not getting closer or not fast enough?
because we do not stand together as one we are not really a community, now why do i say that?
because the lgbt community it self keeps segregating within and among them self's, its like this beautiful necklace that has been broken and shattered in pieces laying and rolling around on the floor.
some even lock out straight people who are unlike the once that try to keep them away from the lgbt community are not blind. LGBT Rights is about human rights. and we our self's are the once who make progress impossible
i keep repeating that if and when all people who believe in justice freedom liberty and equality join forces and stand together unite there power an peaceful yet firmly speak with one voice and demand what should not be needed to be demanded. then and only then something can and will really change.
remember rosa parks she spoke up by not standing up , well what keeps people from doing the same
have a sit down at the white house or where ever the best place might be , boycott something that is important and you will hit the money jack pot and by doing so yes recession or not perhaps that is even a plus point right now you can make the changes happen. people should stop looking and pointing at others to do the dirty job for them.
how does a search group go? (when some one or something is lost in the field and needs to be founded) what is most effective what works best and the fastest? walking in line behind each other ? or standing and walking side by side moving forwards together?
sorry for rambling but if people really want changes, then it is just a matter of action and reaction
neither one will happen by it self
Kit
Well said. I will stand beside you anytime.
or sit
or sit w/Kit as the case may be!
yeap
yeap we shall shit, oops corection i mean sit !
winks
http://1st-us-then-4u2.org/W.O.T.W./creative_writing/poem-kmdw-we-dont-t...
ditto
ditto hon , but mmm in what country ? lol yours or mine ? you better get your ass over here then because i aint going any where
winks
cuntry
Let's meet in Julia's integrated cuntry.
Segregation?
And, if you're (somewhat) quick: why, yes, I'm saying that the LG movement is the "LG" movement. Alone. No other letters of the alphabet are included.
Nice to know were you stand. I guess I'll just stand out here on the sidewalk and watch you and your friends go about it.
Bi-bye
oh N2T, look, we're all
oh N2T, look, we're all sexual, and all of us can libidinally cathect to any 'body' (not just human; chocolate being my case in point). So, what's the big deal that some people have 'interests' that fluctuate more frequently? -- wanna medal?
I just really think that we (the entire queer community) need to be more strategic -- like terrorists. They don't go around en masse. Hell-to-the-no they don't! You can identify however you want: bi-sexual, heterosexual, homosexual, chicken. I don't care. It's just that we have to keep in mind that identities only exist within societal constructs. We have to think about how focalized our attacks are, and so I'm wondering if therefore that means that our issues need to be more targeted as well.... meaning, yes, splinter groups. I'm in no way saying 'You there, you who identify as bisexual! go over there!" what I am saying is that, in regard to the fight for political rights, we need to think about what 'we' as a group are projecting. Too diffuse a message and the poor heteros will be confused.
So, in short: identify however you want. Personally, if you must know, I don't believe in 'bisexuality.' ... Just like I don't believe in 'race' or 'equality' or 'god.' blah blah blah
poor heteros??
"I don't believe in 'bisexuality.'"
?????
you don't believe in race
you don't believe in race but you make "queers" a separate kind of human beings. "queers" as a group bullshit ! what kind of group : social, political, biological, sexual (what's that ?) ?
American queer community if you think that such a thing exists has not the same interests or aims than French queers or Spanish or English or Italian queers (even the word queer is inappropriate in my country). that's a fact. my problem is not my sexual identity ( my identity is not sexual) my problem is about some denied rights. it's a political problem.
dear LMZ bonjour. the job i
dear LMZ
bonjour. the job i have now i have because "queers are a group" in the u.s. the equivalent of ethnic groups — i.e., we have a distinct culture, however fluid and despite the fact lesbians never agree on *anything*.
and you're right
we have a disitnct culture and a distinct history and a disitnct social and political situation.
hi Erin
Paris was sweet tonight and it's almost full moon
hope to see you here one of these days. We'll take a walk on the quai de Seine with friends and a bottle of wine.
take care
holy smoke
are you sure its the heteros that are confused?
if and when you do not believe in equality then how the heck can you want same rights ?
ain't that about equality ?
there is only one message sweety and if you dont get that then i wonder how we can make that cleare to those who you named and called confused
not sure if you read my msg
not sure if you read my msg correctly: 'equality' is a concept that only exists in a closed system (social, political or otherwise). Therefore, 'equality' occurs legislatively, and so forth.
It does not exist outside of these systems.
I can explain more if you have any elaborated question(
at hand.
Hmmm
I'm still waiting for examples of open systems where the concept of equality does not exist.
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
they don't -- and here i'm
they don't -- and here i'm being entirely bergsonian and nietzschean and even spinozist. 'equality' doesn't exist in nature. or, i guess i need to ask: what do you mean by 'equality'? because the only way i'm able to conceptualize it in nature would be to think about machines -- toasters, if you will ... but then, if you think about AI, then, no....no two things can ever be the same. ever. and that's the beauty of life.
as i said, i'm all for legislative, political forms of equality (laws). it's just not a real thing, otherwise -- ie, it's only 'real' in closed systems.
Closed Systems
Not sure I quite understand this. Can you give examples of "open systems"?
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
think it's logically
think it's logically impossible for there to be 'open systems' other than nature itself. 'life' in its raw form (life as difference).
Calling Bullshit
So you're admitting that your claim that you don't "believe . . . in equality" is a load of crap.
Thus Spoke ZaraThustra:
1) Personally, if you must know, I don't believe in 'bisexuality.' ... Just like I don't believe in 'race' or 'equality' or 'god.' blah blah blah
2) 'equality' is a concept that only exists in a closed system (social, political or otherwise). Therefore, 'equality' occurs legislatively, and so forth. It does not exist outside of these systems."
When pressed to present examples of open systems:
3) think it's logically impossible for there to be 'open systems' other than nature itself. 'life' in its raw form (life as difference).
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
I think
That when ZT said she doesn't "believe" in race, equality, she doesn't mean she "believe" race, equality doesn't exist but her thought isn't frame in the "belief" way.
And all those thing doesn't exist by a nature fact but by a social creation.
Maybe i'm totaly beside the point.
-Do not follow me, I'M LOST-
if
if i knew what the heck a elaborated question was ?(and some of the other woords that you use)
then i might or might not have one but i 4 1 aint that well or high educated
im just a simple low educated foreign soul that speaks from the heart not the mind
winks
Big words
Aside from a possible interpretation related to perceptual elaboration questions, used in several psycho social research projects in 2001, which I doubt, elaboration just means giving more specific information. An elaborated question is a more complex and specific question. In other words, Zara is telling you that if you don't know what to ask, she is going to evade your question altogether.
I'm pretty sure I have seen her horse before. LOL
lol
thanks for the explanation !
hey but at least our prophet/poet inspired me to a quick poem although she prob say the word sentence punctuations etc are incorrect and sucks all together
here you go
http://1st-us-then-4u2.org/W.O.T.W./creative_writing/poem-kmdw-stupid
winks ~ smiles ~ lol
Nice!
You make me smile.
Don't worry about the Wordies. Most of us just like the sound of our own voices. And some twist themselves up so much they can't find their way out of the dictionary they have locked themselves into.
lol most of the
most of the educated people on here etc. dont really show it off and thats what makes me smile & happy
winks
We're a humble educated lot.
We're a humble educated lot.
Then again I went to Kent State, not Yale.
"Fight Prime Time. Read a Book"
lol
It's far more easier and more likely for me to end up in jail,
then it would or could ever be to attend and join Yale !
winks ~ smiles ~lol
speaking of those who attend elite schools...
...but ain't got the common sense to grant us equal rights, look who made the cover of the Advocate!!
http://guerillawomentn.blogspot.com/
i meant to say question or
i meant to say question or questions and tried to place the "s" in parens -- alas. I am tech stupid.
lmao
now if and when that s makes you tech stupid then what kind of stupid am or are I ?
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
p.s. I'm on a low horse , what kind of horse are you one? ...
I'll get of of mine, if you'll get of of yours ?
Winks ~ smiles ~ lol
peace out >>>
forgot to ask i wonder why you named your self zarathustra , you think you do justice to the name etc?
your goal should be to exercise good thoughts, words and deeds.
prophet of the good god and religious poet, you really see your self as that ?
and why would me being tech
and why would me being tech stupid make you any type of stupid? that just makes no sense whatsoever.
i'm done responding to day old fodder.
onward.
Think Nietzsche's
Think Nietzsche's Zarathustra. Not your religious one.
thanks
thanks ZT for the pointer !
mm do i really want to think Nietzsche?
Light bulb
Yea, I recognize Zarathustra.
Civility is not a sign of weakness.