Lesbian Fiction: Past Its Shelf-Life?

Lesbian Fiction: Past Its Shelf-Life?

I'm not an argumentative person. Honestly.

Shut up.

This is a hoary subject, one that in the past I've steered clear from discussing while still making my opinion perfectly clear. That opinion is that I positively despise the term "Lesbian Fiction."

I understand the need to give a body of work a classification in order for it to find its intended audience. In this case, If you're a lesbian, these books feature lesbian characters, so you'll like them. Sounds reasonable, no? As a writer though, the essence of that statement feels so fundamentally wrong that it sets my teeth on edge and make my motor neurons spasm.

So — straight people. God bless ‘em. God bless everyone, but that's not the point. If straight people read books with straight characters, do they like them by default? I have two words for you: Dan Brown. Right there is more than enough evidence to refute that supposition.

Dan Brown. Like whoa.

The second and more distressing issue I'd like to address about "lesbian fiction" is not necessarily about it having lesbian characters per se, but the alarming insinuation that because they feature lesbian characters, readers should be grateful for that much and put up with sub-par writing.

Ouch.

This is typically where the kitty-claws come out.

I've been in the publishing business long enough to feel safe in making a few observations. A few years back I wrote a mystery. It didn't sell well because the protag didn't claim—didn't own—her sexuality on every third page. She had a male partner. I also gathered that didn't go down well. That's entirely my opinion of course, deduced from feedback I received from various avenues. The point is this: there appears to be a kind of ruthless indoctrination coming from lesbian presses pushing the notion that new and unpublished writers — who happen to be dykes — have to keep writing in a very specific way (let's call them formula-stories) so that the small presses will publish them, because there is no way a mainstreamer will touch them with a ten foot pole.

I don’t get angry much. I've learned not to. But that sort of patronizing crap makes me livid.

If you are an unpublished writer who happens to be gay, do not for one



Comments [89]

Tex's picture

Past its shelf-life?

Yep! I think so. Keeping ourselves separate and different is......well......keeping us separate and different. And so as not to make the bloods boil, I will not use words such as assimilate or conform or adapt and such. BUT, I find it refreshing to read and view a lesbian included with the rest of humanity...you know, just like real life!

Twitter Time @kdhales

skate's picture

The photographer Diane Arbus

The photographer Diane Arbus once said something to the effect of, "the more specific you get, the more universal you get."  All the art I like that's been produced by LGBT people (where the LGBTness was a major part of the work) has worked according to this model.  I love the artist/writer David Wojnarowicz, because when he talked about the specifics and uniqueness his sexuality, he got at ideas that are universal (rage, self-reliance, etc).

If anyone wants to read a really good book by him, it's The Waterfront Journals.  It's basically a collection of things people said to him when he was a prostitute and was travelling the country.  It was was really important to me when I was in my late teens/early 20s.  I haven't read it in a while, so it would be interesting to see what I thought now.

Another book from that time in my life was Crystal Diary: A Novel by Frankie Huchlenbroich.  It's a kind of autobiography of a butch growing up in the 50s.  I haven't read it in years, but it meant a lot to me when I was going through addiction.

So yeah, a good gay book has to be a good book.

Grace Moon's picture

Skate learned something new about you!

Had no idea you are an art buff.

Wojnarowicz is definitely off the beaten path and someone who I think has been overlooked for a while. He had sort of a renaissance a couple years ago... for some reason I vaguely remember a retrospective at the new museum??? never read his books, will check it out.

I totally agree with you re. artists who use their queerness as a central theme of their work.

I adding a few more names to queer artists doing queer themes; Robert Mapplethorpe, Catherine Opie, Ron Athey, Kehinde Wiley, mickalene thomas,... um ... can't think of any more at the moment.

tweet tweet @gracemoon

skate's picture

homo artists people can look up

I'm from Mass. and a local homo artist was photographer Mark Morrisroe.  If you like DW you might like him.  He took my favorite photo ever, it's this:

http://www.culturagalega.org/imaxes/edicion/thumb_650_4.jpg

I also liked Francis Bacon alot as a teen.

There is a photographer Peter Hujar that has a picture I love, but I can't find it.  It's of a horse, I think rearing up on its hind legs.  I saw it maybe one decade ago.

Grace Moon's picture

right

I forgot Bacon was gay.

lets face it the best artists are queer.

tweet tweet @gracemoon

Tex's picture

Yep,

I'll agree with that! Have I ever told you that I really like your Yuefen Pai series?.....think I prefer collection to series.....pieces worthy of collecting....

Twitter Time @kdhales

Julia Watson's picture

I love the lezzie mafia last

I love the lezzie mafia last supper ones. In fact, I WANT one of the lezzie mafia last supper ones.

Tex's picture

I remember that!

Seems like y'all put up a video about the making of the last supper....or linked it or something....that was a fascinating concept

EDIT - found it!

http://www.gracemoon.net/paint/?page_id=18

Twitter Time @kdhales

minniesota's picture

Late to the discussion with my two cents

I don't mind the term, "Lesbian Fiction." I do mind Lesbian Fiction Publishers, whose concept of what Lesbian Fiction should be is too narrow to foster good writers and good stories that don't fit that narrow concept of lesbian fiction.

I want good fiction with interesting characters. But, I'm selfish enough also to want a lesbian character, from time to time, because there has never been enough lesbian characters for me to enjoy.

Mostly, welcome to Lynne, who obviously knows how to write well enough to generate an interesting discussion on this lebsian site, VPM.

 

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

Lynne Jamneck's picture

Morning All

It's 11am in New Zealand - Sunday morning. Pardon any gibberish. No wait, I shall make coffee. Brb.

I'd like to address some points various people have brought up, but first - thanks all who have weighed in so far. I consider myself privileged to be able to hear what y'all have to say. I'll just quote some extracts and reply.

"I might be misunderstanding this, but are you saying you signed a contract with a lesbian publishing house--on the basis that you're a lesbian?"

  -- No, I signed the contract on the basis that I was an unpublished, inexperienced writer who had contacts. I also thought I could make a point by publishing a story that focused on the mystery as opposed to the lesbianism of my character through a lesbian publisher. I think the point got made, just not in the way I'd hoped for.

"Most lesbian fiction is crap but only because most fiction is crap. Most GLBT films are crap because most films are crap."

  -- Disagree. Youre reading the wrong books and watching the wrong movies.

"The logical extension of your argument is that we don't need lesbian websites, either."

  -- Nope, that's just silly.

"If you're looking for the place that the hordes will jump on the "don't label me" & "I'm not into lesbian culture" bandwagon — you found it."

  -- Excellent.

"If a writer chooses to write for a specific audience, what's the problem? On the other hand, if an author doesn't want to be shoe-horned into that niche then she should only submit her work to mainstream publishers."

  -- I was thinking about Authorial Intent when I wrote this and you make a valid point. To a large degree it's going to come down to why an author writes - is it to put more lesbian stories onto the market? Is it to make a successful career out of writing? And no, you donlt have to sacrifice any integrity as an author in order to make a living from it.

"And you can get GaGa anywhere. Not so with Catie Curtis so why take up already limited shelf space with GaGa?"

 -- Actually, you can get Catie Curtis pretty much wherever you are. It's called Amazon.com

"For some women it's a rush to go into a GLBT bookstore and buy a lesbian book. For them, it's a self-affirming act."

  -- I understand this, but I don't necessarily think it's right. Buying a book, something that most people would take for granted, should not be a self-affirming act. Spending a month on top of the Himalayas with nothing but a tent and the clothes on your back - now that's a self-affirming act right there.

"We should take advantage of the tiny window that has opened by encouraging those in our community who produce literature and art of all kinds to step up with their very best work."

 -- Yes, yes and decidedly yes. But then, you use words like "literature" and "art", and I think that speaks volumes about why you understand what 'm trying to say.

  Ok, I will hunt for more quotes.

  The book I am writing right now is in many ways the story that's been brewing in my head for years; what it really is I want to write. (more here: http://stricklandiaries.wordpress.com/)  The protagonist is queer, yes, but this fact is very incidental to the story; the reader only finds out by an offhand comment. Maybe ... it's because the book is not about a character's sexuality, it's ... For me, there are so many more interesting things to write about - things that affect everyone, regardless of who they sleep with. I mean, we're all human, right? I think the more we reiterate our differences, the longer we will always put ourselves in camps.

 To this you may reply - "So that's how you feel, then write that way". Which naturally, I am doing. But I cannot tell you how many of the well-known players in the lesbian publishing world have scorned me outright for this approach. They feel that, if my protag is a dyke, she has to "behave like one". I mean, what the hell is that, what does it mean? Somehow they feel I have a responsibility to write as a lesbian, not as a writer. And that is what I have a problem with; that's the crux of my argument. Writing is a sacred act; it's above sexuality, above everything.

When I was selecting stories for the Periphery anthology (Periphery - Erotic Lesbian Futures), there was a backlash because I chose to include stories by straight authors. What the hell? It's rediculous.

Writing, at its very core, is not about pushing an agenda  or emporing others. Those are very awesome side-effects that come from doing it right.

 

 

 

 

 

SMBrown's picture

I really appreciate you

I really appreciate you raising these issues, and your responses here to a variety of statements and questions posed.  I think, however, that you've raised them in rather broad strokes which is perhaps good for opening up a discussion, but not at teasing out the complexities.  I admit to not being as conversant in fiction as I am in theatre, but I think many of the same discussions of parameters applies.  First off we need a definition of precisely what 'Lesbian Fiction' is--is it determined by the publishers or the booksellers?  Is lesbian fiction written solely by lesbians?  For lesbians?  By AND for?  Are there any lesbian publishers that seek to promote and develop lesbian literary talent regardless of subject matter?

There seems to be an underlying assumption that mainstream is somehow high-brow, which is patently false.  Harlequin romances, Patricia Cornwall, and (for me) even Dan Brown come to mind.  Perhaps rather than abolishing 'lesbian fiction,' we simply need to re-name it to something more appropriately pulpy.  Clearly, though, there is a market for it, and so it will (and should) continue to exist.

 

Lynne Jamneck's picture

I think someone should

I think someone should probably write a book about it Smile All those questions you raise are very valid indeed.

Ho-la, mainstream is definitely not high-brow at all; having spent a few years in an academic environment I can attest to that. I think my problem (in terms of 'gay' being a community) is always going to be that I tend to veer away from looking at the world in terms of groups; I prefer to see the individual, and I'm afraid that doesn't always gel so well within the framework of being gay. Cripes, hope that made some sort of sense.

SMBrown's picture

It does

It totally makes sense.  I'll just add that as nice as the 'don't-fence-me-in, no labels' mantra may sound it ignores the reality that publishing is a business, and businesses are all about find their 'market' and selling to it.  Thus 'mainstream' fiction is divided into Science-Fiction, Mystery, Thriller Fantasy, Mass-Market vs.Trade, and on and on. 
So while I understand your frustration at being told by a lesbian publisher to do this or that to your manuscript, I can tell you from my own experience in publishing that the same would be true when dealing with virtually any publishing house.  I think we're probably more sensitive to comments regarding our sexuality because it's very personal and immediately brings up issues of being 'ghettoized' when in fact EVERY author gay or straight gets categorized so they can be marketed to the appropriate 'niche.'  Most small lesbian publishers do not have the resources to compete with the larger houses, so unfortunately they're not looking to discover the great American (or Kiwi!) novel.  Sad but true. 

I do agree, however, that the dubious quality of much so-called 'lesbian fiction' reflects poorly on the lesbian creative community at large and the category should be renamed so as not to brand us all with mediocrity.

Lynne Jamneck's picture

I think this is where the

I think this is where the discussion turns to motivation, and that's a great big old mess because

you get the whole ART vs BUSINESS issue. Writing is an Art, but like many, I too want to be able to make a living from it. So yes, there is that. I can;t tell you how many times I have backtracked th manuscript I am now working on because it's not conventional. Problem is every time I try and go against what I know I should be doing, everything hits a stalemate. So I've finally said to hell with it, and the damn thing is coming out the way it wants to. It's a difficult position for any artist to be in - writing, film, music, all of it.

Btw - I'm an adopted Kiwi. Been here for about five years. I'm South African Smile

SMBrown's picture

Best of luck finding your

Best of luck finding your way!

Not2Taem's picture

Today, VP got a whole lot more interesting.

Thanks.  Glasses

Robin Rigby's picture

""Most lesbian

""Most lesbian fiction is crap but only because most fiction is crap. Most GLBT films are crap because most films are crap."

  -- Disagree. Youre reading the wrong books and watching the wrong movies."

Actually, if we're talking from a purely statistical perspective I believe Rusty is right on.  I don't know how many books get published every year (mainstream, indie, self-published, etc) but I  do know that there are literally thousands of films produced each year just here in the USA and if a hundred of those are any good (the number's probably lower) then that's a pretty small percentage.  

I do want to say though that I appreciated your perspective in the blog and that you took the time to read and respond to the comments.  I also read Periphery and it was an excellent selection of stories.  Thank you for that and screw the naysayers.  

Lynne Jamneck's picture

Hey there  - glad you liked

Hey there  - glad you liked Periphery.

Good point about statistics, but for both films and books, you simply have to include foreign titles; if you don't there are an enormous amount of good you're missing!!

Robin Rigby's picture

Agreed.  I was just using

Agreed.  I was just using here because I have some knowledge of the numbers.  Most of the films I watched for FilmOut San Diego last year were actually foreign.  But of the couple of dozen films I watched, one- a BBC production of Sarah Waters' Affinity- was excellent overall (writing, acting, production values). 

Rusty's picture

crap vs our crap

Most lesbian fiction is crap but only because most fiction is crap. Most GLBT films are crap because most films are crap.

"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna

Lynne Jamneck's picture

Realistically, consider the

Realistically, consider the amount of books/films you as an individual will be able to read or see in your lifetime. Several million are now lost from the equation. Statistically, what you're left with (as a figure) enables you very well to seperate the wheat from the chaff.

SMBrown's picture

You canNOT be serious!

Rusty, who spiked your Wheaties?  In the immortal words of John McEnroe, 'you cannot be serious!'  You break my heart saying that.  Seriously.  As someone who has had a lifelong love-affair with both literature and drama I couldn't disagree more.  If I were to devote the remainder of my waking hours I think I would barely make a dent in the mountain of great books and films (ok, with film i might get half-way, but that's only because it's only been around a century).

Rusty's picture

too much crap

Mystics, I'm talking about sheer numbers. If I go into Barnes and Noble and pick 100 works of fiction published last year how many "great" books would I have? Same thing with movies. Randomly pick 100 films from last year (US and international) how many great films? Maybe a handful. The problem is sheer volume. Everybody with a computer thinks they can write the next great novel or screen play.

Are their great books and movies? You bet. But the majority are not.

Some of my favorites -The Watermelon Woman (you mentioned Cheryl Dunye) is one of my favorite lesbian films. The Dyke and Dybbuk by Ellen Galford is my favorite lesbian novels.

"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna

Tex's picture

Pardon the interruption..

what are your favorite lesbian films?

Twitter Time @kdhales

SMBrown's picture

Tex, just so you know I was

Tex, just so you know I was referring to her statement that 'MOST films are crap.'  And I always draw a blank when it comes to naming fave books/films/artists, you name it.  But off the top of my head I love Patricia Rozema's work, plus Cheryl Dunye's and Lisa Cholodenko.

Robin Rigby's picture

I don't see any of you ladies

I don't see any of you ladies mentioning one of my personal faves- 'Saving Face'. I highly recommend it. IMM&Y is at least a twist on the PSGM.

Steph's picture

Yeah, "Saving Face" is one of

Yeah, "Saving Face" is one of my faves too.  Smile

minniesota's picture

Like like

Robin, that was my favorite film in the past few years.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

Tex's picture

That's cool....

thanks for the listing....I'm more into - The Gymast, Imagine Me and You, Loving Annabelle....some pretty good music in these three.....and Addie Yungmee and Piper Perabo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACG5zL0FFiI

Twitter Time @kdhales

Steph's picture

Just wanted to stick my two

Just wanted to stick my two penneth in and say that I love Imagine Me & You and Loving Annabelle too. As you say, hot chicks and great music!!

SMBrown's picture

The love scene in Annabelle

The love scene in Annabelle was worth the price of admission, and the acting was good, but I can't recommend the film overall...

Tex's picture

I don't recommend them,

but I own them...

Twitter Time @kdhales

Steph's picture

Can't disagree but I am VERY

Can't disagree but I am VERY forgiving when I fancy (the pants off) the two leads which I did in this one.....please don't judge me too harshly Wink

Tex's picture

I'm not gonna judge you...

I'm gonna watch some movies with ya.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhfpzny9aDs&feature=related

Twitter Time @kdhales

Steph's picture

Waaaaaay haaaaaaaaay!!!

Waaaaaay haaaaaaaaay!!!

Robin Rigby's picture

Rozema's 'I've Heard the

Rozema's 'I've Heard the Mermaids Singing' is f'ing brilliant but I don't understand the appeal of 'When Night is Falling'. The latter falls into a sub-genre of lesbian film I have dubbed The Protesting Straight Girl Movie and I've seen so many PSGM's that I am sick to death of them.

Julia Watson's picture

The difference is that WNIF

The difference is that WNIF is the only beautifully done, completely satisfying "Protesting Straight Girl" film I've ever seen!

@Mysty down there, it's one of my favorites, too!

Robin Rigby's picture

WNIF

Don't agree with you there.  I found it pedestrian, even forgetting for a moment that it's a sub-genre I am very much over.  

FYI, one of my other favorites is D.E.B.S. because it's hilarious.  Take that with the wonderful Saving Face I mentioned up above and you see what I want in my lesbian films- good movies where the leads happen to be gay but that's not the point.  D.E.B.S. would have worked if Lucy Diamond was Larry Diamond and Saving Face could have worked if the lead was dating her black male neighbor (if she thought her mom would have a problem with that).  I think placing gay characters into well-known genres is truly revolutionary because it's kind of subverting from within.  

SMBrown's picture

YAY!!!

YAY!!!

SMBrown's picture

Back off

Back off WNIF, Robin :)  It's a personal fave.  I know what you mean about the cliched storyline, but that didn't detract from it for me. 

SMBrown's picture

p.s. And admitteldy I was

p.s. And admittedly I was once a not-so-protesting straight girl!  Smile

Tex's picture

Excuse me....

what's WNIF?

Twitter Time @kdhales

SMBrown's picture

When Night is Falling....

When Night is Falling....

Tex's picture

Heck fire.....

I just watch 'em for the chicks and music!

Smile

Twitter Time @kdhales

Olivia Mistelle Maxell's picture

I do have to agree with you

I do have to agree with you (Rusty) about most GLBT films being crap. Hell, I can't even hang through 5 minutes of Logo without changing the channel. 

Being someone that has always lived in between the bigger cities, it's fucking hard to find books or movies centered around lesbian characters. (that I can relate to)  Now, you can go on the internet, but a lot of what you find isn't what you want. 

I written two short stories revolving around lesbian characters and vowed the characters wouldn't die, get gay bashed or end up alone after their lover went back to sucking dick.  Sadly, in most cases than not, those are the only stories, us in the rural areas of America have and gravitate toward. Why? We've lived it, that's why. I ended up writing something tragic, sad, funny, and realistic that was based on my own experience.

As a lesbian that has never lived in a big city and is used to the "blending in" in order to survive, it was important to put something together that more, like myself, could identify with.  One thing I did change was the endings. The lesbian didn't die but fought back and left her closet case before being left. I was determined to have a "happy ending"--even if I had to make it up.

There is a huge gap between the two ends of this country--and putting labels aside, lesbian literature is hard enough to find, and even harder to locate inside that gap. So maybe putting an identification on the subject matter isn't so bad in order help people find what they want/relate too. 

In my personal opinion, of course. 

SMBrown's picture

I might be misunderstanding

I might be misunderstanding this, but are you saying you signed a contract with a lesbian publishing house--on the basis that you're a lesbian? 

Rusty's picture

not hardly

"Okay, let's see how many Facebook de-friends are swinging in the wings."

Not on this site. If you're looking for the place that the hordes will jump on the "don't label me" & "I'm not into lesbian culture" bandwagon — you found it.

"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna

Rusty's picture

The next step

The logical extension of your argument is that we don't need lesbian websites, either.

"Mainstream publishers will publish you if you come up with something unique." Doesn't the same hold true for mainstream web sites? It seems hypocritical to me to post this blog on a lesbian web site. Why not salon.com or The Daily Beast or HuffPo?

"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna

Not2Taem's picture

Don't see the conflict

I don't see any problem with posting it here. I actually found the blog very relevant to the community. There is a down side to the way Lesbian Fiction as a genre is portrayed and produced. To deny that inhibits the natural evolution of the work.

MacLass_19's picture

Agreed

Great points Tae.