Gay Christian Singer Jennifer Knapp Explores Common Ground
Christian singer Jennifer Knapp penned a piece for CNN.com that explores her relationship with faith through the lens of her homosexuality. She's just released a new record after many years while also coming out. It's definitely worth a read. Here's an excerpt:
"I just wanted to explore my faith. I simply wanted to meet others, converse, encourage and learn about how to be ... well, a meaningful person. I have definitely found myself in the midst of an adventure I would have never imagined or called for.
This was the world I found myself in when I realized I was gay. After years of subtle comments, wary glances and leading encouragement to get married and have babies, I was fully aware that I had a foot in the door of some houses that were about to be slammed. At the same time, I had experienced years of rich and fulfilling dialogue with many people of faith who taught me the soft landings of compassion. Still, it was hard not to respond to the fear. I questioned whether my faith had betrayed me, or I if had a betrayed my faith."
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Comments [82]
You're right; expressing your
You're right; expressing your point and questioning isn't judgmental. But that's not what you did:
"I didn't like that at all. I was thinking, you're not a nice human being...to heck with the gay thing. Chely doesn't appear to be someone I would get along with." [emphasis added]
I said I was going to try not to judge since I had the very real experience of 2 of my friends - two women I consider to be very nice - admit the same behavior. That is a statement of fact not judgment.
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
Oh geez, Rusty!
These words "I was thinking" synonymous with "in my humble opinion" etc. And no, I don't run around with people that are deliberately mean. And REALLY, I'm not deliberately mean. Deliberate here being the key word.
Why all the attacks these days? What's going on? No one can say anything without being accused of being judgmental. Should we all start every comment with IMHO? This nitpicking is ridiculous.....and look at this topic that has caused this stir.....how we treat people....not liking deliberate meanness. Wow!
So come on, Rusty. Whop me again. Pick those comments apart one word at a time. That's what it's all about these days, isn't it?
Twitter Time @kdhales
anti-Chely Wright blog
IMHO this particular blog was about a christian singer who came out and then it turned into an anti-Chely Wright blog. I don't think you can blame me for that. All I did was point out that I can understand her behavior since I've had friends admit doing the same thing.
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
It's all my fault
That's what I get for making comparisons!
and if I was with you...
you naughty, naughty girl! Wait a minute....almost forget
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXwdB8rmJTs
Twitter Time @kdhales
HAHAHA! Silence--nice!
HAHAHA!
Silence--nice!
Maybe that's the whole problem...
nothing about this is anti-Chely Wright. Kelly and I were discussing what she knew and what I heard Chely say about not treating other people nicely. I stated that I didn't get how people could be like that...that's all. Then you started whopping me 'cause I don't like deliberate meanness. Nitpicking my comments and calling me judgmental.
Twitter Time @kdhales
I'll take the fall on this one.
I'm the one who came out and said I didn't much like Chely because of what I've heard about her. Didn't mean to start a war. It was a personal opinion, and not necessarily humble.
I'll also admit that I'm totally judgmental. I believe that every moment of every day we each make judgments about this or that.
So there!
(Keep bickering, if you must. It makes for lots of comments and gets the post into the Most Popular box over there!)
Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword
Back to Knapp
Still, I feel bad for my part in turning the discussion away from Knapp because I'd much rather focus on someone who seems so evolved and humble. Alas, if only I knew more 'Christians' like her!. Her partner's a very lucky girl!
Sweet thang!
My fellowette ex-Louisianan, you will always be in my most popular box!
And with that explanation of judgmental, then I am most judgmental as well....but I still wasn't passing judgment on Chely Wright! heheheheheheeeee
Twitter Time @kdhales
Am I supposed to know who
Am I supposed to know who Chely Wright is? Cos I don't!
Hi Steph, she's a country
Hi Steph, she's a country singer who came out. Here's a link to an article on AfterEllen:
http://www.afterellen.com/blog/stuntdouble/five-reasons-chely-wrights-co...
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
Hi Rusty, thanks for the
Hi Rusty, thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
What do you think of the new Doctor by the way?
I thought it would take me
I thought it would take me more than one episode to accept Matt Smith but it didn't. He had me at the multiple ties and suspenders gag. And Amy Pond's made it even harder for me to pick my favorite companion.
I'm disappointed there won't be a Doctor Who or Torchwood panel at ComicCon this year. That was my favorite panel last year.
And you're welcome.
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
I hate to do comparisons, but
I hate to do comparisons, but after reading this article:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/28/2911992.htm
from Australia (where Knapp is now a citizen) I much prefer her quieter, less PR-savvy brand of coming out to Chely Wright's media blitz. Not surprised Down Under was/is a good fit for her...
Me, too!
And I know Derek Webb who that article mentions. He's a great guy. Doesn't surprise me that he's supporting her.
Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword
Hmmmm
familiar words and phrases....betrayed, fear, wary, doors slammed....when talking about people of "faith" and gays.
I'll read the piece and take a listen - thanks for the info. How are these singers' cd sells going after coming out?
Twitter Time @kdhales
Not sure.
I'm listening to Knapp's on her website right now. I like it. Think she put it out herself.
As for Chely, she got on Oprah and Ellen, so I'm guessing she's moving some units. Can't bring myself to listen, though. I've heard too many stories about how badly she has treated people, particularly her girlfriends, to like her.
Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword
That reminds me....
I listened to an interview Chely was doing. The woman actually said that when she was not out she used to say nasty things to gays to keep her identity hidden. I didn't like that at all. I was thinking, you're not a nice human being...to heck with the gay thing. Chely doesn't appear to be someone I would get along with. I mean, if you're in or out or inbetween, how you treat people should never change.
Twitter Time @kdhales
Her behavior isn't that
Her behavior isn't that uncommon. I have two close friends who told me they did the same thing. They were ashamed of who they were and did everything they could to make sure no one thought they were lesbians. That included saying snarky and downright hateful things to other lesbians. And they were grown women when they did it.
It has nothing to do with whether they're "nice human beings." It's about what they saw as self preservation. If you met either one of them, you'd never know they were capable of that sort of thing.
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
I don't get that.
I wasn't always out, but I never said anything snarky or downright hateful to anyone gay....or anyone period. I think that's the difference. If you're a nice person, really a nice person, you don't deliberately say nasty things to other people, do you? I don't get that.
Twitter Time @kdhales
still can be nice
I've been out since jr high and I never said aniti-gay things, either. That doesn't mean I'm going to judge how someone else deals with their particular situation. And I've never met anyone who's "nice" in every situation.
[Sorry, I initially posted this in the wrong place]
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
Why CAN'T we judge shitty,
Why CAN'T we judge shitty, hurtful behavior? Only in over-therapized-don't-take-responsibility-for-your-actions America would that fly.
It's mob mentality...
...to a certain extent. I can see a nice person falling into that self-preservation mode out of desperation and fear. Just because you're nice, doesn't mean you're necessarily strong. And strength of character would be a requirement in those cases to overcome the fear.
Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword
Most evil in this world is
Most evil in this world is committed unintentionally, because of weakness, but it does just as much harm as that which is intended and malicious. A warped sense of 'self-preservation' is what leads to most bullying. I'm with Tex, unless someone does a MAJOR mea culpa I'm not going to excuse the behavior. We're ALL scared at times, we ALL have our insecurities, but we don't all act cruelly to save our own skin. I think those that do are self-centered from the get-go.
I'm with you and Tex, though
I'm with you and Tex, though I wouldn't characterize the behavior being described as 'not nice' but chickenshit. And as you say, that's just as bad. If you have engaged in this sort of shitty behavior and then (again, as you say) do adequate mea culpas, admit to being a shitheel & that if you had it to do over again you'd behave better then I'd be okay with it. I understand that none of us are perfect & am willing to cut people slack when they admit to their mistakes but if you just keep on keeping on then I don't need you in my life.
I have zero patience for people who can't say they're sorry or at least admit when they've made a mistake.
I don't think we have to
I don't think we have to excuse shitty behavior, but since I'm far from perfect I do try to understand the why of what other people do.
And I think we can and should separate - that was a shitty thing to do from she's a shitty person.
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
For me shitty is as shitty
For me shitty is as shitty does....
Interesting discussion
To forgive or not to forgive? And can we ever do it fully? There have been times in my life when I forgave everything. I wanted to believe that there was good within everyone and that people did the best they could with what they had available to them at the time. That included their level of social development and emotional state. Then I went through the, "I am done being a doormat!" phase, where I forgave nothing in adults. Eventually I decided that there are things I do not forgive, and people that I may be able to deal with at one time, but not at other times; things I can forgive in one person, but not in another. All that black and white has melded into gray.
I've been a big believer in
I've been a big believer in forgiveness too, sometimes to my own detriment--not acknowledging my own feelings of hurt and anger so that others can feel better. I'm more aware of that now, and more willing to let someone know just how much pain they've caused rather than skipping straight to forgiveness.
Yup
I think I have pretty much gotten to the point where I walk away when I need to and don't tear myself up over it. I've also settled with the fact that there are things you don't really get over and its OK not to be able to make yourself comfortable around certain people. Sometimes you can forgive, but its best to just admit that you won't forget. Other times, you just let it all go and fill yourself up with a cool breeze.
So much power....
in forgiveness. For me, it gave me the power to move on. Remove myself from someone and a situation that would never have gotten better....people are who they are....it is a gift to be able to see the human in the being.
Twitter Time @kdhales