Dean Says Kill the Bill Because Lieberman's a Douchebag
Leading progressive health care reform proponent Howard Dean called today for the Senate's latest bill to be killed because it signals “the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate.”
Just days ago Dean was excited and supportive of the compromise which included a widened Medicare buy-in and other provisions as a trade-off to conservatives who wanted the public option cut.
Now that Senator Joe Lieberman (I-CT) is once again threatening to filibuster the bill despite his own prior and major support of a broader Medicare base, Dean thinks the whole thing should be scrapped and a fresh start made via different means.
Dean told Vermont Public Radio Tuesday, “This is essentially the collapse of health care reform in the United States Senate. Honestly the best thing to do right now is kill the Senate bill, go back to the House, start the reconciliation process, where you only need 51 votes and it would be a much simpler bill.” Insisting that “real reform” should be the lynch pin that earns the support of progressives, Dean sees Lieberman's demands as pushing the bill into a hopelessly watered-down and pointless piece of legislation.
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Comments [26]
Not so fast Howard
I know a lot about how Congress works, but the nuts and bolts of health care reform - not so much. When the debate on health care reform started Howard Dean was my go-to guy. But the more I read about his "kill the bill" arguments, the less sway he has over my opinion. I'm not sure how good this bill will end up being but Dean is getting too many things wrong for me to trust his opinions any more. Here's just one example of him getting wrong in a BIG way:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/too_much_hostage-tak...
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
progressive case for voting yes
From John Podesta - the progressive case for passing the Senate version:
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/12/16/podesta-dean/
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
Gotta push her through
If we didn't have the economic mess we do I'd agree with Dean, but with this soft jobless recovery Congress needs to get to work on JOBS JOBS JOBS and can't expend any more time/capital on healthcare.
Actually...
Dean is onto something here. The idea is to scrap the current bill entirely, but to NOT start from scratch.
Medicare is a program that already exists for those age 65 or older, as well as those permanently disabled. Expanding it to others (allowing them to buy in) is a simple (okay, maybe not so simple) budget matter, one that does not require a supermajority vote just to end debate and get a real vote passed, but a simple majority instead. Of course, this means the current legislation being considered must be dropped first.
The problem, of course, is the "king maker" factor we're seeing with Lieberman right now. More than a few Dems in the House and Senate are bought and paid for by the insurance industry, and AARP is going to balk (they are heavily partnered with United Healthcare). Some key "Blue Dog" is going to want his or her voice heard, pork projects funded, a committee chairmanship, etc. But, getting 51 votes is far easier than getting 60, especially when you figure Lieberman would then become irrelevant.
If done right, it could theoretically work, and could result in some jobs coming back.
As far as bringing all the jobs back, I suggest reciprocal trade agreements, where our trade policies mirror exactly those of our trading "partners." Right now, we are at a serious disadvantage in that area. That sort of change alone would solve our massive debt issue, and bring back many of the jobs lost to China and India. Time to bail on NAFTA, GATT, and the WTO and G8, all of which have put us at a serious economic disadvantage, and only benefit transnational corporations loyal only to their shareholders.
Any new trade policies must also include an additional tariff on goods made in countries that do not match our labor, workplace safety, and environmental standards.
We can do our part by reading the "made in" labels, though nearly everything we buy today won't say "USA" as the country of origin, since most of our manufacturing is now done outside the US. SImply shopping locally for locally made goods will do much to bring jobs back.
Sorry for the rant, just my thoughts on the subjects.
Yes, but...
I agree with the jist of what you're saying, and if we lived in a RATIONAL country I'd take the Dean approach. But with every minute this things hangs in the air the right-wing nutjobs like the ones in Grace's blog have more time to derail it. They will stop at NOTHING, as we've seen. And, because the public is ill-informed and freakishly skitish about any change (even though they hate the current system) their support wanes with every minute this drags on. Tom Friedman is right--we have reached the point where America's political system (and I'm assailing everyone here, including the pubic) no longer can accomplish the business that needs to get done. H-E-L-P!!!!!!!
Yeah, I feel your frustration
The problem lies not in how to stop the current trend in this country towards corporate fascism, but in the willingness to not just stop it, but to remain vigilant to insure it never again rises from the ashes. It takes work to overcome fear and ignorance. The fascists are willing to put forth the work, but history proves progressives often are limited in their commitment to stop them. The fascists control the media, the government, and the economy.
One need only look to the Peoples Republic of China to see what our own future holds for us, if we fail to fight back or simply give up.
end game?
Nate Silver - number cruncher extraordinaire - makes the anti-Dean case here:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/12/why-progressives-are-batshit-craz...
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
when is 60 not 60
Howard Dean's hands are not clean on this. When he was chair of the DNC his "50 State Strategy" was to find conservadems who could run and win in traditionally Republican areas. It worked and guess what? We got conservative Democrats who walk, talk, and vote like Republicans.
Everyone (myself included) got excited about the huge majorities we won in the House and Senate but we forgot that Democrats (unlike Republicans) are skittish about punishing rogues.
Dean brought the dogs in the house not knowing we wouldn't be able to keep them from crapping on the floor.
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
it was a
miscalculation.
I believe the DNC under Dean didn't realize what would happen, i think they thought the majority could control them...
tweet tweet @gracemoon
Herding Democrats is like
Herding Democrats is like herding cats. The ReThugs don't have this problem. The Dems should have made an example of Lieberman by stripping him of everything and saying vote how you will on actual legislation, but there is a penalty for opposing the party on procedural votes.
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
absolutely
Joe has already admitted he's not willing to lose his chairmanship over it. So take his stinking chairmanship and see if that's the first time he keeps his word.
Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword
More blame to go around
And remember that Lieberman probably would not be such a crucial vote if the Rethugs hadn't closed ranks against any bill because they are asshats.
Still searching for the right brainy quote.
Exactly. And the Dems have
Exactly. And the Dems have themselves to blame for letting the ReThugs get away with 60 is the new 51. Remember Rachel's piece with the female BB player?
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
filibust the filibuster
I say change the law, except that will bite Dems in the ass, too, at some point.
Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword
Indeed
I read a couple of days ago that Tom Harkin (of Iowa) was so pissed at Lieberman that he was going to propose a change, but I don't know what's become of that.
Get rid of it
The founders never intended to let the minority stop legislation. It was only meant to ensure that major issues were fully debated. The word "filibuster" appears nowhere in the US Constitution. When the founders wanted something to take a super-majority they specifically mentioned it. For example, it takes a 2/3 Senate vote to approve treaties.
(And it would only take a simple majority vote to get rid of it.)
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
Lieberman
I find Joe Lieberman fascinating. Some think he is acting out of egoism. Others maintain he acts out of principle. I think it is a bit of both. History will tell.
Still searching for the right brainy quote.
History will tell he's a douchebag
I honestly no longer think there's any principle involved--not after the rejection of the Medicare 55+ buy-in which he supported only three months ago. His explanations for that discrepency are pure BS: he claims Medicare can't afford it, but the fact is it would reduce Medicare costs by bringing in a younger, healthier population. So Joe's a liar as well as an obstructionist asshat!
Rethug asshatedness that pisses me off even more
Speaking of obstructionists, did you hear what that Republican tried to do to the bill today? That infuriates me. From NPR:
For more than three hours Wednesday, they forced the Senate clerk to read a single-payer amendment — all 767 pages of it — until it was withdrawn by its sponsor, Independent Bernie Sanders. Republican Tom Coburn, who demanded the reading, said he was only trying to follow regular order, but an aide to the minority leader put out a different message on Twitter: We're trying to kill the bill.
Still searching for the right brainy quote.
Senator Fucktard
I find him a fucktard af immense proportions. His excuse on flip-flopping on the buy-in compromise?
". . . he said he was particularly troubled by the overly enthusiastic reaction to the proposal by some liberals, including Representative Anthony Weiner, Democrat of New York, who champions a fully government-run health care system." So liberals like it and he decides to change his mind.
I will repeat what I said several times. Instead of letting him stay in the caucus he should have been knee-capped and stripped of his chairs. Can you imagine ANY ReThug Senator pulling this shit?
"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna
No way!
I didn't know THAT was his reasoning.
And the GOP doesn't let its foot soldiers event THINK about stepping out of the ranks.
Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword
LOL
Lieberman was all over the Sunday talk circuit last weekend with that one. It took only a few minute for progressives to discover his hypocrisy, and to discover what Lieberman was trying to hide from.
It seems, to expand Medicare to everyone, all that is needed is a simple majority vote (not a supermajority), because it is a budgetary issue at that point, not legislative. By introducing expansion of Medicare to those 55 to 64, a door had been opened whereby Medicare could be expanded to everyone, through budget reconciliation, in future budget negotiations.
Lieberman twigged to this, and that is the reason he is now against expansion of Medicare in any way. The GOP, of course, has always opposed Medicare, but didn't catch this one until after Lieberman did.
Hence why Dean wants to scrap everything, and start over from a very different direction, one that leaves Lieberman very, very alone and politically irrelevant.
Yes, it will take longer to get what we want, but in all reality, the current bill is a gift to the insurance and pharma industries. It does nothing to contain costs (actually, it prohibits cost containment), and does nothing to stop current abuses by the insurance industry. It also punishes those who cannot obtain insurance due to health or economic reasons (to sick to qualify, too poor to pay for it) with a huge fine (last I heard, about $3,800). Yeah, it gives a $1,000 tax credit to help pay for insurance, but what good is that when typical health insurance premiums run about 5 times that, and that doesn't include the huge deductibles and co-pays?
Just scrap the current bill, and start over by expanding Medicare to everyone, a process that requires a bit of budget negotiations, and a two sentence change in the Medicare law that eliminates the age and disability requirements. Simple, elegant, already established, etc.
Or pass the current bill, and face a GOP takeover of both the House and Senate, once progressives figure out they just got screwed, no lube, no reach around, no kiss, and no flowers or phone call afterwards.
Too late
Too late. Killing the bill is not going to happen. Like it or lump it, the train has left the station and they will pass a watered down bill. It will have some good reforms, but nothing to the extent of what the progressives wanted.
Still searching for the right brainy quote.
Don't you mean "nothing to
Don't you mean "nothing to the extent of what the country needs"? Seems to me like Lieberman just can't get enough of the spotlight and is doing all of this to keep his name in the news. Asshat!
Agreed
National polls and Connecticut polls both have majorities in favor of the public option. Lieberman is just playing this one for all it's worth. But he has everything to lose, not much to gain other than bad publicity. I really don't get his thinking on this one.
Won't you be my neighbor? @theKELword
Still ain't going to happen
Still ain't going to happen no matter what the polls say.
Still searching for the right brainy quote.