Dead Lesbian Feminists

Dead Lesbian Feminists

If you are trying to place Mary Daly and the significance of her life and work, you might only take a glance at the front cover of her book Gyn/Ecology for an instant epithet of her unparalleled brand of spiritual-intellectual lesbianism:

 

There you have it, my sisters: A giant labyrs, a clever play on words, and a focus on cultural feminism as a set of practicable daily ethics — all wrapped up with a quote from fellow lesbian icon Adrienne Rich.

Like Mary Daly herself, Gyn/Ecology maintains a mythic status in lesbian/feminist circles: we have a vague, if powerful, sense of familiarity or identification with it, but haven’t ever really given it much attention. We passively accept Daly and her work as foundational and use it to understand our origins (like myth), but for many of us, Daly’s work may also seem inaccessible, incomprehensible, or even irrelevant.

Because of the odd positioning between the mostly invisible lesbian feminism of today and the radicalesbians of (what we erroneously think of as) “the past,” the passing of lesbian feminist Mary Daly raises some important questions about our relation to second wave lesbian/feminism. Daly’s death, like that of Audre Lorde back in 1992 or Del Martin in 2008, confronts us again with a sort of cultural specter of “dead lesbians.”

Whether you know it or not, you’ve been witnessing the “historicization” of feminism for some time now, the process through which feminism and feminist activism become “history.” A pivotal point in this process might be the founding of the Elizabeth A. Sackler Center for Feminist Art in the Brooklyn Museum, for instance (also known as “How The Dinner Party found a home”). Ironically, along with this institutional recognition comes the literal death of an earlier feminist generation—something we haven’t seen since the deaths of first wave feminists: Mary Wollstonecraft in 1797, Sojourner Truth in 1883, and Elizabeth Cady Stanton in 1902.

Yet, while feminism manages to slowly stake its claim in our cultural institutions, we should also think about what gets left out. What remains of Mary Daly? The swell in our chests when we see a dyke in a plaid shirt featured in some newspapers upon her death. A return to and reconsideration of her books. A realization that the stylization of lesbianism granted to us in The L Word or urban lesbian party culture pales in comparison to the glamorous ethical concerns and lived philosophies that used to define lesbian existence. Many of the lesbians of this era are still alive, but despite being accomplished women, they live in relative obscurity:  the aforementioned Rich, Barbara Smith, Judy Grahn, to name a few.

Where Is Mary Daly?

Currently, dead lesbians don’t have somewhere to go when they die. We need to take more initiative to make sure our most outspoken and honorable lesbians know their work is valued and will be cared for after they’re gone. We need to conceive of a way to capture their thoughts and honor them before the twenty-paragraph obituary written by a straight person runs in the local papers. We need to confront the unresolved controversies surrounding the accusations and realities of white privilege when it comes to early feminist thought, and re-examine the nearly unilateral dismissal of some of these early thinkers that occurred just as the notion of “separatism” seemed to buckle under its own impossible weight.

That said, I do observe an increasing awareness and embrace of lesbian feminist principles (not to mention, styles) in some queer factions: the sense that old-school lesbianism is cool again. We need to extend this awareness further and recognize that we stand at a crucial moment for remembering the first generation of lesbian feminism. We need to put the eye-rolling in check, and brainstorm ways to “herstorize” this generation on our own. In the meantime, go out and buy foundational lesbian feminist texts, read them critically and in celebration, and lobby to bring these living icons to speak at your school, local bookstore, or community event. Because, like Moon affirmed in her earlier post on the subject, Daly is, after all, “survived by the entire lesbian sisterhood.”



Comments [58]

Diana Cage's picture

sigh

swoon

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

Oh how I love this discussion

So many different perceptions, so many different ideas, with so many smart women!  And my llittle brain is just soaking it all up!

I love to learn new things, and right now I'm like a kid in a candy store, happy, content, and stuffing myself full, lol.

More please?

Grace Moon's picture

i have to hand it to

the Prof for knowing how to facilitate a classroom discussion.

might this be the first time we treaded on a difficult topic without a blow out?

tweet tweet @gracemoon

Tex's picture

Just might be....

it was nice, wasn't it? Adults acting like adults! Lord have mercy, I can't believe I just called myself an adult! Hell's bells, I need to find someone to go out and play in the snow with....

Twitter Time @kdhales

Meiohmy's picture

Preserving herstory

I am glad to see you writing about this  Prof. C.  I read something a while back that Sonia Johnson - another interesting voice- wanted to submit an article to Ms. magazine after Andrea Dworking died and was told they were not interested. WTF? I am glad to hear that there are archives and hopefully these histories warts and all can be preserved. 

I am also glad to hear the criticism.  I remember trying to slog through The Chalice and  the Blade and bringing up in a discussion at a local womens bookstore how the language of the book made some really great ideas unavailable to a larger group of women.  I was shut down and criticized saying that I was trying to "dumb down" the message of the movement.  Sad

Not2Taem's picture

Meiohmy Notes

Meiohmy,

I find that is true with a lot of texts. I wonder what would happen if you got together a group of folks and worked together on your own Cliff Notes.

Joanne Robertson's picture

Good

Idea  Star

Joanne Robertson's picture

Marilyn French

"We need to take more initiative to make sure our most outspoken and honorable lesbians know their work is valued and will be cared for after they’re gone".

We may care for their work (or parts of it), but society does not.

When Marilyn French died, our (usually well balanced) mainstream Wellington newspaper did an obituary and in the headline was "ANGRY FEMINIST" ... That headline was on the front page and repeated in the obituary article headline.

I have never seen our paper disrespect someone in an obituary ... even the obituaries for famous criminals are respectful ... and yet in death Marilyn French was disrespected.

Part of me gave up that day Sad

 

minniesota's picture

Don't give up

Don't give up. That's what they (the jerks) would want you to do.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

Agreed

Couldn't have put it better myself, at least not in a hundred words or less, lol.

Rusty's picture

Raises hand

Question for the class: It's been a long time since I sat in a Woman's Studies course so I'd like to know if the blanket assertion that Second Wave feminists were/are a bunch of racist, classist, transphobic radical extremists ever challenged?

Age-wise I'd probably be called a Second Waver, but that description sure doesn't fit my brand of feminism.

"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

Oh yeah!

At least the classes I took in the 1990's challenged such generalizations.  We didn't allow the positive aspects to be overshadowed by the relatively negative and intolerant minority.

minniesota's picture

That question reminds me of something

Rusty, I can't speak to your specific question about current Women's Studies classes, but I can tell you that even back in the 1970s the issues of race and class were thorny in the women's movement.

My research paper for my women's studies course my senior year as an undergraduate in 1976 was about the the problems Blacks and Latina women had with the feminist movement at the time. The research that I conducted for that paper way back then helped me to realize that understanding the intersection of gender, race and class, and other isms, is essential to understanding the effects of oppression. I thank the two professors, who taught the course, for allowing me to explore that topic and giving me such thoughtful feedback on my paper.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

Rusty's picture

Conclusion?

Did you conclude that the women's movement was racist and/or classist or that white feminists prioritized issues differently than Black and Latina women? Or was something else going on?

I remember going to NOW meetings and pro ERA demonstrations. Very white affairs. I also remember inviting African American friends to go with me and being told more or less that "'women's lib' wasn't their thing." Did that make them bad women or self-hating misogynists? Nope. It meant they had different priorities. And that's OK. Was I racist because passing the ERA was my priority? No, again.

We're seeing some of the same arguments in the wake of Prop 8 — marriage equality is a white gay issue. Am I a racist or a classist if I fight for issues that impact me directly as a lesbian? No. And it doesn't mean African American gays and lesbians suffer from internalized homophobia if they fight for issues that effect the African American community.

"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna

minniesota's picture

My conclusion

I concluded that certain white women were not able to see their white privilege or to consider that race or class, in addition to gender, affected people in different ways.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

Rusty's picture

fascinating

I would love to read this sometime. Your conclusion sounds much narrower than many of the critiques of Second Wave feminism I've seen. Did you use interviews? How did you decide women when women weren't aware?

"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna

minniesota's picture

Long gone probably

That paper is probably stashed away in a box in my parent's basement, but I think my mother tossed out a bunch of my stuff from college in a fit of cleaning one time, hah.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

Tex's picture

Adrienne Rich...

"Patriarchal lying has manipulated women both through falsehood and through silence. Facts we needed have been withheld from us. False witness has been borne against us.

And so we must take seriously the question of truthfulness between women, truthfulness among women. As we cease to lie with our bodies, as we cease to take on faith what men have said about us, is a truly womanly idea of honor in the making?"

 

Twitter Time @kdhales

Professor C's picture

anti-trans Daly

For folks who are reading this: you should jump over to the other Daly post on VP and read CA Medicine Woman's comments about Daly's transphobia. I'd just like to stress that my piece here isn't intended to overwrite the problems with the early 2nd wavers (the most discussed being racism--but there are many other issues at stake) but to encourage a more honest confrontation with them. Casting these women aside as crazy racists, harmful transphobes, or weirdos who don't let men into their classrooms hasn't brought us greater understanding of them or the era. We need to do more than point out the obvious. These issues are the ghosts (some very harmful, very haunting) of women's lib and lesbian feminism, so we need to bring them out, bring them to task, but also salvage the things that may still help us (which itself is a very complex challenge)...

The palpable tension that remains between 2nd wave lesbian feminists and transpeople is particularly troubling. but my point here is that ignoring them doesn't really help with the larger issues, and waiting for these folks to die off won't make these problems disappear either. this history is a part of all of us, regardless of our individual identities.

minniesota's picture

Thanks for this comment

Excellent points, Professor C. The issues are complex and it serves us to remember that the work of dismantling oppression needs many minds and hearts, and possibly many generations.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

Amen!

I never really saw Daly as crazy, and I did agree with some very interesting things she was trying to get across, and what she was ultimately trying to accomplish (mainly getting women to focus on ourselves and each other in order to restore the balance disrupted by the patriarchy, and in particular mainstream theological thinking).

Unfortunately, more than a few brilliant thinkers like Daly fell into the patriarchal trap of binary thinking, which later proved harmful to what they themselves were trying to accomplish.  For example...

The exclusion of all men from certain classes Daly taught, in my opinion, probably also excluded men who could have learned a great deal from her, and they in turn could have carried that knowledge back with them to other men, perhaps setting in motion a chain reaction that could have generated progress towards breaking the patriarchal system.  Just as the patriarchy uses women who buy into the system of oppression to promote that system amongst other women, Daly and others could have used men open to feminism ideology (my understanding of what that is and what she was trying to accomplish) back to other men who are equally open to such ideas.

It would have been better to exclude just those incapable of grasping or disruptive towards what she was trying to teach, which as a professor she would be able to assess fairly quickly, and I would think that would have been well within Daly's authority.  A quick private word with the student just before the "drop" deadline that they very well may fail the class, and lower their GPA as a result, is not uncommon, and quite effective at getting such students to depart peacefully.

Just a thought on one area that could have been handled better.

Not2Taem's picture

yes and no

*Please excuse the old-fashioned use of gender binaries for this discussion.*

For most subjects CAMW's approach would work. But as a teacher I have observed that even young girls converse very differently on some subjects when boys are and are not present.

By the age of 10 the vast majority of girls have been overpowered in some way by at least one male. It might be a minor moment of being under the control of another, or it might be a major trauma, but for most of us, it happens at least once in our first decade. Gender is one of the first differences that most children understand, and with which they relate certain characteristics. That means it is one of the first borders on which they start to generalize. Thus, however much a girl may like a boy as a friend, even if he himself is not able to overpower her, some part of her brain makes that association.

I'm sure some of you are already screaming in your heads as you read this, but bear with me for bit. As we grow, we each deal with this in our own way. Some make a conscious effort not to give in to the natural inclination to behave differently with one gender than we do with another. That very consciousness puts a veil between us. In some way we censor ourselves in order to not censor ourselves. Then there are those who simply do not have it in their nature to get around it at all, and those might be the very women who most need to participate in that discussion. And it needs to be an educational discussion. Social peer organizations are fine, but they are not a replacement for probing conversations among women that seek to examine and clarify subjects in an intellectual forum.

If you see this as discrimination, maybe the solution is to make some sections of the class gender specific, and others coed. That way students get to make the choice for themselves. But I can guarantee that the way the professor teaches these sessions will differ just as much as the student response to them.

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

Please delete

[EDIT] Deleted due to being seen as a "conflictual discussion of personal issues."

 

Tex's picture

It wasn't about the men...

it was about the women! Mary was all about WOMEN! It wasn't about excluding anyone - it was about the inclusion of the feminine. 

Twitter Time @kdhales

gk's picture

Lesbian Archives

Thank you for this article. It brought up for me the importance of supporting our archives. And particularly lesbian archives. The Mazer Archives in West Hollywood is very active in trying to generate more community involvement by hosting programs and events that highlight collections within the archive as well as continuing to solicit materials for the archives so that our history isn't lost. Their tagline has been "Where Lesbians Live Forever." And I know that Angela Brinskele, archives director, is working hard to make sure that's true. Their website is   http://mazerlesbianarchives.org/   and in Brooklyn, there's the Lesbian Herstory Archives http://www.lesbianherstoryarchives.org.

Tex's picture

Thanks, gk...

bookmarked!

Twitter Time @kdhales

peacekitty's picture

Great to know, thanks for

Great to know, thanks for sharing that.

"Fight Prime Time. Read a Book"

Professor C's picture

I love your series of

I love your series of questions. I didn't get into it in the piece, but I'm fascinated with Daly's unrelenting position on men in the classroom. it's so daring (obviously: hence the controversy) and representative of certain discussions no one really has anymore... in particular for me is Daly's claim that a female-only space falls under academic freedom. I love when dyke academics unapologetically take on the administration (within the relative safety of a tenured position and productive career)!!

Grace Moon's picture

let that be a lesson,

try not to be tooo controversial before you sign the contract Wink

tweet tweet @gracemoon

Not2Taem's picture

Memories

My dad used to tell me that in lots of little ways.  <3 memories

Professor C's picture

oops

This was supposed to go to you, Tex. Although it's funny how it looks at first like i'm responding to myself!

Tex's picture

Whatch out academia...

once the Prof has tenure!  

Wink

Edit to your edit - talking to yourself these days, Prof C? Always heard the problems didn't come in the talking - it comes in the answering! 

Smile

And Minnie and I are having a discussion about this men exclusion thing back in the PM section. Bring it to the front Minnie - it's a good one!

Twitter Time @kdhales

minniesota's picture

My thoughts

This is what I said, edited somewhat:

As an educator and one who uses some aspects of feminist pedagogy, I found Mary Daly's stance about barring men from her classroom very troubling. Very troubling indeed. Instead of barring men from her classes, she could have used the opportunity to have men in her classes to confront and discuss the fact that oppression involves not just numbers (I'm the only male in the room, so I a minority! Not.) but a system of beliefs, practices and privileges.

Also, by barring men from her classes, she assumes that no men could not understand this, which wrong.

This particularly galls me because I am working on diversity in the curriculum for my program right this very minute and we start from the stance that both women and men in our program have the capability of understanding the historical and cultural roots of inequity and inequality.

Daly had the right to separate herself from men in her private life if that is how she chose to live, but she worked in BC's co-educational system, which has a mission to educate both women and men.

I understood her point about women historically lacking opporunity but I disgreed with the way she was making her point.

-----------------------

To Prof C: I am troubled by using the concept of academic freedom to keep anyone, who wishes to learn, from learning, female, male or in-between.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

CA_Medicine_Woman's picture

.

.

Tex's picture

Thanks, Minnie, for posting this!

This discussion is marvelous....bet Mary's dancing an Irish jig today!

Twitter Time @kdhales

Professor C's picture

yeah

i'm actually really amazed she got away with it for so long. esp as notions of "academic freedom" have themselves fallen by the wayside, which is truly horrifying.

Tex's picture

I bet if we could check such things...

she got away with it because her female students liked it! It probably worked....

and BC is a private institution - she had more leeway and she knew it.

Twitter Time @kdhales

minniesota's picture

Being private probably did not have much to do with it

She would not necessarily have more leeway in a private institution. The fact that she got away with it probably was due more to holding a tenured position than the type of institution.

In today's higher educational (private and public) environment, tenured or not tenured, she would need to show evidence that her female students not only liked it but that it improved their learning outcome; the evidence could not just be based on her word. FYI: I am the assessment lead for my departmen at a private university.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

Tex's picture

At a private...

she didn't have to worry as much about public mandates...just as private Christian universities get away with banning LGBT people all together from their faculties! You sign the contract - makes it all legal - you accept all of their mandates. Evidently, her being a lesbian, they don't have the LGBT faculty ban at BC. Sooooo, maybe I shouldn't assume, but I'm going to assume that BC is a bit more liberal than say....Baylor. Being the assessment lead at a private university, you know what I mean. It all depends on the individual school's contractual faculty mandates. BC called her on it.

That being said, we're getting away from the point I think she was trying to make - she wanted the women in her women's studies classes to feel free to express themselves. It wasn't about men - it was all about women. It may have not been totally legal or accepting by the college, but I don't really think she cared about that either.

She was making a point for women not men.

Twitter Time @kdhales

Rusty's picture

Thank you

"It wasn't about men - it was all about women." Thank you. And yet, that's where the focus is even in the comments on a lesbian site—what could men (or the hets, to use Minnie's example) get out of the classes.

"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna

Rusty's picture

Minnie, as an eduator, I saw

Minnie, as an educator, I saw first hand why Daly barred men from certain, not all classes. To put it bluntly — some men never shut the fuck up. The only students I ever had to chastise for attempting to dominate every class discussion were males. In over 20 years of teaching I never had to ask a female student to ratchet it down and give others a chance.

As a student, I've been in female only seminars and the energy is different. Especially in women's studies courses.

I'm not saying what she did was legal, but I sure understand the sentiment.

"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna

minniesota's picture

Good

Well, on the bright side, I'll suspect it was good for women in the class to see the instructor asking men to shut up. You probably gave them a model/technique on how to do it in many situations they would face in the future. I picture lots of women out in the world now being able to say, "Pipe down, fucktard!" Hah.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

Rusty's picture

as a matter of fact

I never called any students fucktard, but I did have to cuss out one student in front of the class. I'd tried the direct approach of just asking him to give others a chance to speak. I tried humor. Nothing worked and I'd had it. I finally said in my sternest Army cadence calling voice, "This lecture is taking twice as long as it should because of your smart ass remarks."

Then I realized I'd said it out loud. Dead silence for a second and then the entire class erupted in applause. There was even some stomping of feet. I was an un-tenured freeway flyer and I waited all week to get called in and fired. Not a single repercussion. But I still resent the fact that I had to do that.

And also, I was never the type of teacher who said, "There's no such thing as a stupid question." There most certainly are.

"When you look for the bad in mankind expecting to find it, you surely will." ~ Pollyanna

Not2Taem's picture

Low key

Rusty, your comment to that student was very low key compared to many made by untenured profs when I was at university.  LOL

I also totally agree on the stupid questions. Some folks use them to manipulate the discussion, and I do not tolerate it when teaching children or adults. And that includes adults who outrank me within my school system.

Tex's picture

Also as an educator....and business woman....

I don't believe that Mary was in any way putting men down, but building women up! She wanted women to be able to discuss 'women' freely - unencumbered with the patriarchal notions. When she excluded men she was celebrating the inclusion of the feminine.

Twitter Time @kdhales

minniesota's picture

Hmmm, that gives me an ide-ar

By that logic, next time I teach an LBGT-oriented class, I am going to see if I can bar heterosexuals so we can speak freely and celebrate our queerness. I have noticed that hets tend to dominate the conversation because they always outnumber us, (they tend to not outspeak me, though, because I am a big mouth).

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

Not2Taem's picture

How does it impact the objectives?

For me, the question would be how the presence of non-queer folk impacts the progress of the class toward the learning objectives.

minniesota's picture

Learning outcome

The learning outcome is that we all learn from each other, both hets and homos, thus it is a win-win situation.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.

Not2Taem's picture

so

So, for that objective diversity to enhances the discussion. Any discomfort would be perceived as a push toward growth.

One of the primary challenges of education is to create the best learning environment possible for each specific subject and student group. What enhances one learning situation might hinder another.

minniesota's picture

Discomfort

Tae, diversity work in higher education entails facing our discomfort and coming to grips with it. Acknowledging that there is discomfort (i.e. pain, anger, vulnerability) is part of the learning process. You must keep in mind that I am teaching adults, not children. We call it "heart" work because it means opening our hearts as well as our minds.

Still searching for the right brainy quote.